[Complete] Tournament of Champions 4

[Eskon]

Stable version, so 1.4.5. I don't think there has been any balancing changes during 1.4, so other 1.4 versions should be fine - I think (please correct me). Just make sure you use the updated maps (or have your opponent use them).

[Wintermute]

WC spam is not really a 'winning' strategy. When a player starts to spam corpses, it is easy to counter in most cases. The only "problem" that I know of is when a player who has a slight advantage choses to use that advantage making WCs. If that player can "get away with" making enough of them, then it can become a deterrent to the other player. HOWEVER: you can't really attack with WCs, so the game becomes a stalemate.

In other words: if a player is ahead he can force a stalemate, which is boring and something to avoid. It is silly for players to try this IMO, but some people are very defensive by nature. AFAIK, there is not too much of a "problem" other than this. With the possible exception of UD/UD. I think WC spam is rare enough (at high levels of play) that maybe someone else who has actually seen it might have insight?

[woodmouse]

Uh... Does that mean that Walking Corpses should not be used? I love them!

[Doc Paterson]

WC spam is not really a 'winning' strategy. When a player starts to spam corpses, it is easy to counter in most cases. The only "problem" that I know of is when a player who has a slight advantage choses to use that advantage making WCs. If that player can "get away with" making enough of them, then it can become a deterrent to the other player. HOWEVER: you can't really attack with WCs, so the game becomes a stalemate.

In other words: if a player is ahead he can force a stalemate, which is boring and something to avoid. It is silly for players to try this IMO, but some people are very defensive by nature. AFAIK, there is not too much of a "problem" other than this. With the possible exception of UD/UD. I think WC spam is rare enough (at high levels of play) that maybe someone else who has actually seen it might have insight?

I agree with you completely, and really, I'm not sure where these complaints are even coming from. I'd second your request for someone who believes in it to state their case.

[Eskon]

Did I hear this right - WC spam gives an undead player who is in front the stunning ability to force a draw?

That sounds [censored]. In any case, it doesn't necessitate a ban. Stalemates are boring, but in the end you can't force people to take risks they simply don't want to take. If it becomes clear neither side can win, people should be man enough to call it a draw. The match should then be replayed. Banning Walking Corpses to avoid this remote possibility of a stalemate would be shooting after pidgeons with cannons.

[Mabuse]

well, i dont participate in the tournament, but i wholeheartely think that a 1.4.x Tournament should allow ALL options/strategies that can be used in 1.4.x -

i mean i seriously never heard of that thingy, i dont even think that wc's are amazingly useful anyway (well, probably they may have a use but i prefer other units somehow and undead is one of the factions i would play (i dont liek their scouts though, ghost is expensive and somehow special (and weak), bat is weak too, well they canb fly but heri general use on battlefield is a bit limited.... nothing compared to loyalist cavalry which is extremely useful in general) - but wc spam isnt a thing i would seriously consider)

anyway,i just was surprised as i heard this this first time with the WC's and i never expierienced that (beside some old startegy advices that refer to version 1.0 or soemthing, there WC's and undead in general was somehting else maybe - that ws before my time though)

[Wintermute]

Did I hear this right - WC spam gives an undead player who is in front the stunning ability to force a draw?

That sounds [censored]. In any case, it doesn't necessitate a ban. Stalemates are boring, but in the end you can't force people to take risks they simply don't want to take. If it becomes clear neither side can win, people should be man enough to call it a draw. The match should then be replayed. Banning Walking Corpses to avoid this remote possibility of a stalemate would be shooting after pidgeons with cannons.

I agree - it is a dumb (or at the very least unfun) thing to do. The point is that this has happened on occasion. Perhaps a replay would be educational (I don't have one), but I know that Becephalus has had this happen to him. He failed an attack I think, and rather than capitalizing on it his opponent just spamed WCs. It just leads to a silly game.

Frankly, I don't that it will come in to play in the ToC, but IF IT WERE TO, then Noy has already clarified that people shouldn't do it. That's good enough for me. And if you disagree, then just save your replay when the time comes, and maybe it will be an educational experience.

EDIT: Wy 29 and I will be playing our first game this Friday (tomorrow) at about 9PM EST, and probably more sometime Saturday afternoon (EST).

[Noy]

Did I hear this right - WC spam gives an undead player who is in front the stunning ability to force a draw?

That sounds [censored]. In any case, it doesn't necessitate a ban. Stalemates are boring, but in the end you can't force people to take risks they simply don't want to take. If it becomes clear neither side can win, people should be man enough to call it a draw. The match should then be replayed. Banning Walking Corpses to avoid this remote possibility of a stalemate would be shooting after pidgeons with cannons.

I agree - it is a dumb (or at the very least unfun) thing to do. The point is that this has happened on occasion. Perhaps a replay would be educational (I don't have one), but I know that Becephalus has had this happen to him. He failed an attack I think, and rather than capitalizing on it his opponent just spamed WCs. It just leads to a silly game.

Frankly, I don't that it will come in to play in the ToC, but IF IT WERE TO, then Noy has already clarified that people shouldn't do it. That's good enough for me. And if you disagree, then just save your replay when the time comes, and maybe it will be an educational experience.

EDIT: Wy 29 and I will be playing our first game this Friday (tomorrow) at about 9PM EST, and probably more sometime Saturday afternoon (EST).

Exactly... To be honest I don't think any of the people I knew who carried out this strategy are in the tournament, but It was a warning nonetheless. Its not exactly a winning strategy, but its frustrating for the people who have experienced it... kinda like 45 minute turns. While it probably won't happen here, I don't want to be posting in here two weeks from now adjudicating between two players, one of whom carried out this strategy and the other who quit 3 hours later in exasperation because the game was going nowhere. You might say now, "oh well all strategies should be on the table," it might not be the same when it happens to you.

So its a warning. I haven't placed any rule as of yet. If you don't know what I'm talking about, then I'm almost assured that you don't have to worry about anything.

[Noy]

3vil, I've been told Suokko is MIA, so I'm just going to place you in the bracket vs Nani.

[Fosprey]

The only matchup i have seen this happen is undead vs undead, and i already talked about it in other thread, i'm surprised of reading thjis because when i told that undead vs undead is prone to stalemates i found that people disagree with me.
But anyway, yeah undead vs undead , the best strategy is to spam wc, and once two players started to do it, is very hard to break in. I've called draws in this matchup more than once on the ladder.

[leocrotta]

3vil, I've been told Suokko is MIA, so I'm just going to place you in the bracket vs Nani.

Well I managed to talk to coren (suokko) 1h ago.
He almost forgot the tourney, but is willing to play as far as I could tell.
He'll be away for the weekend, though will contact me via pm about a possible time slot for our match(es).
Let's see ...

[3vil]

either way let me know,
I work tomorrow (friday) late
but have sat, sun mostly open and well too much time on my hands.

[lightdragon]

Pietro, when should we play our match :?:

[Mabuse]

if somebody else is MIA im glad to take his place

at WE lots of time on my hands, and if i have a nice opponent im sure we can play almost out matches in a row, or on just one weekend.

im fine with a 5 min timer, although on a tournament match, if you believe it or not, it can be pretty short. so we may as well make a higher reservoir. im sure that i can agree to something with my opponent.

[Swift]

1. Match: Svek vs Swift | Today - Now : )

I will report results!