A Tale Of Two Brothers - Portraits

[Jetrel]

Little PM from charlieg:

Soz for the PM - can't post this that part of the forum.

His portrait looks good but there is a significant problem with the shoulder armour that detracts from the realism of the posture. The shoulder armour would sit much higher - look at this example:

http://www.thelope.com/images/06-04-23-064.jpg

See the guy in the middle, he is wearing similar armour. Note that the tips of the shoulder armour is almost as high as his ears.

Here the tips barely reach his jaw:

(link to west's picture above)

The positioning of the shoulder armour is such that it could only lie so low if this man had no shoulder muscles - but anybody wearing platemail is built like an ox (it's heavy stuff).

Hope that all makes sense.

I don't know if I endorse this, but it's a good reference picture so I'm tossing it out anyways. I'll think about it.

[West]

The lighting on his face looks oversaturated on my monitor. ie. He looks like he's sitting right next to a really bright spotlight.

Quite possibly. My monitor isn't wholly reliable when it comes to colors as it has a certain pink-ness overall. It's easy to fix though.

Little PM from charlieg:

Soz for the PM - can't post this that part of the forum.

His portrait looks good but there is a significant problem with the shoulder armour that detracts from the realism of the posture. The shoulder armour would sit much higher - look at this example:

http://www.thelope.com/images/06-04-23-064.jpg

See the guy in the middle, he is wearing similar armour. Note that the tips of the shoulder armour is almost as high as his ears.

Here the tips barely reach his jaw:

(link to west's picture above)

The positioning of the shoulder armour is such that it could only lie so low if this man had no shoulder muscles - but anybody wearing platemail is built like an ox (it's heavy stuff).

Hope that all makes sense.

I don't know if I endorse this, but it's a good reference picture so I'm tossing it out anyways. I'll think about it.

1. I'm not sure I endorse it either. It doesn't look like the old hippy's armor sits any higher, it just looks like he has a very short neck. Besides, if I wanted perfect realism in every detail, I'd be a photographer.

2. The thing about having to be built like an ox to wear plate armor is a myth. It's commonly said that "when a knight was unhorsed, he could barely stand up on his own because the armor was so heavy", but this is simply not true. Not only did a good plate armor weigh significantly less than people think, each piece of the armor was also strapped to the individual body parts and thus the weight was evenly distributed. You need stamina to wear plate armor (as the added weight will make you tire faster), not sheer muscle strength. You can run, jump and dance in full plate if you want to, only not as long as without it.

3. I would really, really appreciate if people could mention things like these at the sketch/lineart stage when it was still quite easy to change it. There has been plenty of time to comment on the composition of the image.

[West]

Another edit of the hands; I have arched the knuckles a bit as Jetryl suggested, and also shortened his left hand pinky. I don't know if I can make it any better than this without going back and doing some major edits to the lineart.

The saturation issue was due to me using the Auto Color adjustment in PS; I think it added a little warmth to the image, but this is what it looks like in its normal state. Personally I think it looks a little too washed out this way.

Also, if anyone wants to have a look at the image in all of its full-size glory, you can check it out here (it's a 6.5 meg png, so be warned).

[zookeeper]

Shouldn't his right hand look more like this (mine on the left, original on the right)?

[West]

Shouldn't his right hand look more like this (mine on the left, original on the right)?

Yes, it probably should

The shape of the right hand was something that looked good at the lineart stage, but once I started coloring I could never make sense of what I planned originally. I'm sick and tired of redoing the hands right now, but I might try and fix it later. IMO it's not a big deal, but I'm not in charge here of course...

Anyway, if we disregard the hands for a moment, how far is this image from "good enough to commit"? It would be helpful to know, since right now people are suddenly pointing out all kinds of things that need fixing, details that have been the way they are for months. I'm not going to redo the coloring again, this is like the fifth attempt or something, and going back to edit the lineart means lots of tedious edits to many layers. If everyone has realised that this image is no good after all, fine, then don't use it. I just want to know as I have better things to do with my time than trying to make everyone happy (which isn't going to happen anyway).

[Sapient]

Well, for what it's worth, I think it's really good!

[West]

Well, for what it's worth, I think it's really good!

Thank you. I think I needed to hear that

[Thrawn]

Well, for what it's worth, I think it's really good!

Thank you. I think I needed to hear that

yeah, I've noticed that many people simply point out problems, which can be discouraging...especially when they are between decent and really good.

Nice work, but the skin just doesn't seem as detailed as the armor (not that the armor has texture, but the range of tones on it...I think some parts of the skin need to be lighter or darker (of course some of the great range is due to the metallic nature of armor of course). I could be wrong though... but the skin just seems too pale, even in the shadows...

[West]

Nice work, but the skin just doesn't seem as detailed as the armor (not that the armor has texture, but the range of tones on it...I think some parts of the skin need to be lighter or darker (of course some of the great range is due to the metallic nature of armor of course). I could be wrong though... but the skin just seems too pale, even in the shadows...

I was trying not to overdo it, sort of. Most often when I attempt more painterly stuff it looks like everything is made of the same material. To make the skin look more like skin and the metal more like metal, I kept the shades on his face and hands a lot flatter. As the shading is on a separate multiplied layer it's quite easy to make the skin shades darker, but I will not add a second darker shade. All parts of the image has only one shadow color and the ranges in tone comes from that "filled" areas have gradients (terrible explanation, but I don't know how else to put it without being really long-winded). Adding more shadow to the skin will probably make the armor look too flat instead... and then I'd have to add a deeper shadow to the armor... and so on. What I could do, OTOH, is add some very slight highlights to the skin. That might do it.

However, I will not be touching this image again until I get some kind of official opinion on it. For all I know, I might be wasting my time with it and my motivation to do any more work on these portraits isn't great right now.

[Jetrel]

Anyway, if we disregard the hands for a moment, how far is this image from "good enough to commit"?

Right now it's "beyond" good enough to commit. There's always room for improvement, in any drawing; but this is plenty good enough to go in. Don't be so hard on yourself.

If I were you, I'd work on the portrait for the mage.

[West]

Right now it's "beyond" good enough to commit. There's always room for improvement, in any drawing; but this is plenty good enough to go in. Don't be so hard on yourself.

If I were you, I'd work on the portrait for the mage.

Great, thanks Jetryl. That was all I wanted to know.

And yes, I will get to work on Bjarn now. I can always go back and fix some details on Arne later (for example his swollen right pinky) but I really don't feel like staring at his bearded face anymore right now

I have attached two 205x205 images but I don't know how you want the portrait to be cropped. The full size version can be found here for anyone who wants to play around with it.

[esr]

Yes, I think so.

I'd like to use it for Baron Lanbec'h in Son Of The Black Eye.

[Eleazar]

it looks great.
I added the closer zoom, just to make sure this wasn't forgotten.

[Jetrel]

Yes, I think so.

I'd like to use it for Baron Lanbec'h in Son Of The Black Eye.

You may (of course), though be forewarned that it's also being used for, and was originally intended for, the character "Arne" in "Two Brothers". In fact a differently-colored version of this has been in svn for some months(?) now.

[turin]

You may (of course), though be forewarned that it's also being used for, and was originally intended for, the character "Arne" in "Two Brothers". In fact a differently-colored version of this has been in svn for some months(?) now.

I think he meant that he wants to edit it and create a new portrait for this Lanbec'h character (he said it in response to the link to the full-size image, didn't he)?