Campaign challenges
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Re: Campaign challenges
That can get pretty annoying quickly since there are really long scenarios involved in NR, plus one that is as a matter of fact somewhat dependent on a bit of luck (settling disputes). That being said, my last run was probably pretty close already. IIRC I only restarted Stolen Gold because I got the Lich killed when approaching one of the troll leaders.Maiklas3000 wrote:In another thread, someone said he always restarts a campaign upon a loss - never restarting the scenario. How about that for a challenge?
So not for me, but maybe someone else wants to try that.
Greetz
HomerJ
Six years without a signature!
Re: Campaign challenges
How about playing NR with mortal White Mages and no other challenge?
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Re: Campaign challenges
In described conditions this is not a challenge at all. Skilled players will never even expose such a unit as white mage to direct risk. So it is very likely that they actually will never learn about their invincibility from game.taptap wrote:How about playing NR with mortal White Mages and no other challenge?
Out of subject:
Re: Campaign challenges
Northern Rebirth imho features the best (Infested Caves) and the worst (The Pursuit) scenario of mainline, and I know others agree but would vote Infested Caves the worst, but Infested Caves doesn't force you to kill everything as those other multi-leader scenarios in NR do. It is really simple, if you need immortals and/or too much overpowered loyals to make a campaign playable then there is a design flaw. It is also a little comment on "campaign challenges" achieved by exploiting this immortality. There is an easy remedy, just change herodeaths.cfg accordingly, and while I am sure that this is still beatable most of the NR challenges announced in this thread would have been impossible. I don't know whether or in which shape I manage to work through the study room without immortals though.
I am happy with NR until Clearing the Mines. While killing all those ghouls is fun, you end with simply too much experience. Then obviously the author thought he has to top this experience by throwing ever more opponents at you. As you are reliant on 3 healers, he made two of them immortal... You have zillions of dwarves so there was a necessity to remove them temporarily (completely removed first, recruits only later) everything is very logical but still the result is somewhat sad. The last time I played it on difficult I abandoned it at Eastern Flank, winning once though in bad shape but no motivation to replay. On the other hand Infested Caves I can play it again and again it never grows old to me, it isn't too difficult once you get the knack of it. (The difficulty scales badly though, i didn't found nightmare significantly harder than difficult, because it isn't initial gold that matters most but income.)
I am happy with NR until Clearing the Mines. While killing all those ghouls is fun, you end with simply too much experience. Then obviously the author thought he has to top this experience by throwing ever more opponents at you. As you are reliant on 3 healers, he made two of them immortal... You have zillions of dwarves so there was a necessity to remove them temporarily (completely removed first, recruits only later) everything is very logical but still the result is somewhat sad. The last time I played it on difficult I abandoned it at Eastern Flank, winning once though in bad shape but no motivation to replay. On the other hand Infested Caves I can play it again and again it never grows old to me, it isn't too difficult once you get the knack of it. (The difficulty scales badly though, i didn't found nightmare significantly harder than difficult, because it isn't initial gold that matters most but income.)
I am a Saurian Skirmisher: I'm a real pest, especially at night.
Re: Campaign challenges
To my defense (although I don't think it is necessary ), I am pretty sure that most if not all of the runs I did on the different challenges would have worked in the same way with mortal mages as it did, with maybe 2 exceptions:
one is of course the pursuit, because your mages need to attack the lich and can be killed in retaliation, but this does not concern a particular challenge.
Second would be Settling Disputes which I found impossible at times even with suicide mages. Without them you would probably just need more trials but it would still be possible. Again, this does not concern any particular challenge, but the scenario in general.
In the replays I had attached back then (at 1.6 I think, maybe even some 1.5 in it ), it could be seen that suiciding mages mainly delay enemy forces or kill them faster. Leaving aside Settling Disputes, these strategy was purely for convenience and not vital for winning or losing, at least to the best of my knowledge.
All I can say is, if you have beaten NR on Nightmare, try some for yourself and see. It's fun.
As closing remark, I remember that I only found out the mages were immortal after finishing on the second difficulty level (again to the best of my knowledge as of today), but I like that concept, since it is unique in mainline
Also: Nice to see this topic revived.
Greetz
HomerJ
one is of course the pursuit, because your mages need to attack the lich and can be killed in retaliation, but this does not concern a particular challenge.
Second would be Settling Disputes which I found impossible at times even with suicide mages. Without them you would probably just need more trials but it would still be possible. Again, this does not concern any particular challenge, but the scenario in general.
In the replays I had attached back then (at 1.6 I think, maybe even some 1.5 in it ), it could be seen that suiciding mages mainly delay enemy forces or kill them faster. Leaving aside Settling Disputes, these strategy was purely for convenience and not vital for winning or losing, at least to the best of my knowledge.
All I can say is, if you have beaten NR on Nightmare, try some for yourself and see. It's fun.
As closing remark, I remember that I only found out the mages were immortal after finishing on the second difficulty level (again to the best of my knowledge as of today), but I like that concept, since it is unique in mainline
Also: Nice to see this topic revived.
Greetz
HomerJ
Six years without a signature!
Re: Campaign challenges
Well, I changed the Northern Rebirth code. The mages are mortal, but I will turn Malifor killable by conventional means in exchange. This probably isn't a real challenge in the sense of this thread, but I guess Northern Rebirth on Nightmare is challenge enough for now.
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- Elvish_Conquerer
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Re: Campaign challenges
How about this:
Must level at least one unit to level three every scenario.
Must level at least one unit to level three every scenario.
"Not only that! He made the AI so smart that, it changes the RNG without affecting statistical analysis! So even if you calculate the probability of getting what you got, it seems reasonable, even though it isn't. We've uncovered a massive conspiracy!"
Re: Campaign challenges
For what campaign? Seems impossible for many.Elvish_Conquerer wrote:How about this:
Must level at least one unit to level three every scenario.
Greetz
HomerJ
Six years without a signature!
Re: Campaign challenges
He didn't state whether it is leveled form level 0,1 or 2. So infact it can be rather easy. (Tought not on talk only scenarios.)
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-Flameslash
-Flameslash
Re: Campaign challenges
I was thinking mainly of first scenarios were you usually start with very limited resources.alluton wrote:He didn't state whether it is leveled form level 0,1 or 2. So infact it can be rather easy. (Tought not on talk only scenarios.)
Greetz
HomerJ
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- Elvish_Conquerer
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Re: Campaign challenges
Yeah, reconsidering it seems pretty hard, and leveling a unit to level 2 is too easy. I was just trying to think of something new. What if, in a kind of speed run, you put a timer on all of your turns?
"Not only that! He made the AI so smart that, it changes the RNG without affecting statistical analysis! So even if you calculate the probability of getting what you got, it seems reasonable, even though it isn't. We've uncovered a massive conspiracy!"
Re: Campaign challenges
Did you try what Jozrael suggested, cause that's pretty similar. So basically playing as fast as possible and adding all turns together and compare to our numbers...Elvish_Conquerer wrote:Yeah, reconsidering it seems pretty hard, and leveling a unit to level 2 is too easy. I was just trying to think of something new. What if, in a kind of speed run, you put a timer on all of your turns?
Edit: Hm, on second reading I think I misunderstood your proposal, you want to limit the time to use for single turns? Hm, interesting...
Greetz
HomerJ
Six years without a signature!
Re: Campaign challenges
Currently most of the way through a run of EI recruiting and recalling only Heavies, which probably equates to easy mode in a mostly vs. undead campaign, but the lack of mobility and healers makes to some tight scrapes on a number of scenarios.
Maintainer of the Imperial Era and the campaigns Dreams of Urduk, Epic of Vaniyera, Up from Slavery, Fall of Silvium, Alfhelm the Wise and Gali's Contract.
But perhaps 'maintainer' is too strong a word.
But perhaps 'maintainer' is too strong a word.
Re: Campaign challenges
A Tribute to the Mighty Elvish Scout (An Orcish Incursion, scouts only)
In my opinion one of the most useless units in all of Wesnoth has to be the elvish scout, and normally I almost never recruit them - they're expensive, terrible in combat and only good for grabbing villages (but a quick archer can often grab villages too, and actually help with the battle later) / seeing through fog (very rare in campaigns).
So I thought it would be interesting to try to play a campaign with only scouts. I thought of HttT first but I just don't see how Siege of Elensefar for example would be possible, on hard at least. Maybe it could work on Normal?
However, AOI is actually pretty easy to beat this way due to generous turn limits (meaning lots of gold), lots of forest terrain and relatively low enemy gold.
Rules:
Hard difficulty, no saveloading, no units other than scout types and the leader Erlornas (i.e. don't use Linaera/the loyal mages, or the loyal rangers in the final scenario). Restarts from scenario beginning are okay (I only have to do this three times in total though).
General strategy:
Summary of this whole campaign: Even against the worst elvish units, orcs have no chance against elves in the forest!
Total restarts: 3 (no reloads)
Losses: 35 total: 29 scouts (!), 3 riders, 3 outriders
Luck: slightly positive (damage inflicted is about even, but I take about 5% less damage than expected)
Based on my playthrough I think a more accurate description than "scouts only" would be "using scouts as distractions while Erlornas kills everything."
General note on the campaign difficulty: I think this campaign is far too easy on hard, making it boring for Wesnoth veterans (even using the worst possible recruits I have a relatively easy time). On hard, I would suggest removing the hints in the objectives, removing the rangers in the final scenario, and increasing (maybe doubling) enemy gold for all scenarios.
HttT is a good example of a beginner campaign which teaches you the basics of Wesnoth, but the hard difficulty is actually a fun challenge even for experienced players.
In my opinion one of the most useless units in all of Wesnoth has to be the elvish scout, and normally I almost never recruit them - they're expensive, terrible in combat and only good for grabbing villages (but a quick archer can often grab villages too, and actually help with the battle later) / seeing through fog (very rare in campaigns).
So I thought it would be interesting to try to play a campaign with only scouts. I thought of HttT first but I just don't see how Siege of Elensefar for example would be possible, on hard at least. Maybe it could work on Normal?
However, AOI is actually pretty easy to beat this way due to generous turn limits (meaning lots of gold), lots of forest terrain and relatively low enemy gold.
Rules:
Hard difficulty, no saveloading, no units other than scout types and the leader Erlornas (i.e. don't use Linaera/the loyal mages, or the loyal rangers in the final scenario). Restarts from scenario beginning are okay (I only have to do this three times in total though).
General strategy:
-You won't have healers so you need to use villages. Fortunately with scouts' mobility they can reach far off villages to heal safely.
-As usual with elves keep them in the forest if at all possible; however scouts do so little damage that you often must use a lot of hexes - including flat terrain - to kill any enemy. (Even using all available hexes you often won't kill anything.)
-In several scenarios (the troll one, the undead one) Erlornas will be the only real damage dealer so I make maximum use of him.
-For killing enemy units I prioritize archers as they do extra damage to scouts.
-Because your units are so weak it's often best to just go for the leaderkill rather than try to kill everything.
I basically use Erlornas / level 2 or 3 scouts as damage dealers and mass level 1 scouts as fodder. Often the level 2/3 scouts get used as fodder also. In other words this will be a very high loss campaign!
-As usual with elves keep them in the forest if at all possible; however scouts do so little damage that you often must use a lot of hexes - including flat terrain - to kill any enemy. (Even using all available hexes you often won't kill anything.)
-In several scenarios (the troll one, the undead one) Erlornas will be the only real damage dealer so I make maximum use of him.
-For killing enemy units I prioritize archers as they do extra damage to scouts.
-Because your units are so weak it's often best to just go for the leaderkill rather than try to kill everything.
I basically use Erlornas / level 2 or 3 scouts as damage dealers and mass level 1 scouts as fodder. Often the level 2/3 scouts get used as fodder also. In other words this will be a very high loss campaign!
Individual scenario summaries
Total restarts: 3 (no reloads)
Losses: 35 total: 29 scouts (!), 3 riders, 3 outriders
Luck: slightly positive (damage inflicted is about even, but I take about 5% less damage than expected)
Based on my playthrough I think a more accurate description than "scouts only" would be "using scouts as distractions while Erlornas kills everything."
General note on the campaign difficulty: I think this campaign is far too easy on hard, making it boring for Wesnoth veterans (even using the worst possible recruits I have a relatively easy time). On hard, I would suggest removing the hints in the objectives, removing the rangers in the final scenario, and increasing (maybe doubling) enemy gold for all scenarios.
HttT is a good example of a beginner campaign which teaches you the basics of Wesnoth, but the hard difficulty is actually a fun challenge even for experienced players.
Screenshot playthroughs: Let's Play Dead Water, Let's Play Invasion from the Unknown and Let's Play After the Storm
- beetlenaut
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Re: Campaign challenges
I have done HttT on hard recruiting only scouts. It's harder than shamans or magi only, but not as hard as horsemen only. (I did allow myself to recall loyal units on these runs though, so I did have a healer. And merfolk on Siege of Elensefar.)Inky wrote:I thought of HttT first but I just don't see how Siege of Elensefar for example would be possible, on hard at least.
Campaigns: Dead Water,
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide
The Founding of Borstep,
Secrets of the Ancients,
and WML Guide