Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - now on GitHub!
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
Of course, most Marines were tougher, if you will, than the average sailor. That's the sort of person attracted to that sort of thing. For me, being “tough” was standing watch over equipment with too little sleep while memorizing casualty procedures and all that.
Ah, but yes. Back on topic.
I'm not against proper fantasy, as some of the others here seem to be. However, I do agree that the mainline Wesnoth stuff, especially the campaigns, are hardly what I would consider a ‘rich’ fantasy world.
Therefore, I am always looking for alternatives which will run in the engine.
I must admit that I haven't played EEAW yet. Conceptually, I like it. It isn't easy to strive for both historicity and fun gameplay, with an honest respect for the historical accuracy, so I commend any decent effort to do so.
Sometimes, it is easy to think of distant historical events as simply another fantasy story. We often need to stop and think on how those were actual people, experiencing the world just as you are right now.
Yes, I am rambling to distract from my inability to give any useful comments on the era. Maybe, when I get 1.15+ built, compiled, and installed, I will see some of you folks on the Polish server.
One more thing: I was going through this thread so as to collect the various maps that were uploaded here. I've gotten 22 of them. I wish to upload them in a separate map-pack to complement the era; separate so as to allow users to update it while not re-downloaded the whole era itself.
Are there any other maps scattered across the Polish forum which you have together somewhere? I am part Polish, but I never learned much of the language, excepting words here and there which I notice.
So, when ever you can spare the time, if you post links to them here I will work at including them in the map-pack.
Ah, but yes. Back on topic.
I'm not against proper fantasy, as some of the others here seem to be. However, I do agree that the mainline Wesnoth stuff, especially the campaigns, are hardly what I would consider a ‘rich’ fantasy world.
Therefore, I am always looking for alternatives which will run in the engine.
I must admit that I haven't played EEAW yet. Conceptually, I like it. It isn't easy to strive for both historicity and fun gameplay, with an honest respect for the historical accuracy, so I commend any decent effort to do so.
Sometimes, it is easy to think of distant historical events as simply another fantasy story. We often need to stop and think on how those were actual people, experiencing the world just as you are right now.
Yes, I am rambling to distract from my inability to give any useful comments on the era. Maybe, when I get 1.15+ built, compiled, and installed, I will see some of you folks on the Polish server.
One more thing: I was going through this thread so as to collect the various maps that were uploaded here. I've gotten 22 of them. I wish to upload them in a separate map-pack to complement the era; separate so as to allow users to update it while not re-downloaded the whole era itself.
Are there any other maps scattered across the Polish forum which you have together somewhere? I am part Polish, but I never learned much of the language, excepting words here and there which I notice.
So, when ever you can spare the time, if you post links to them here I will work at including them in the map-pack.
Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
There are no maps as far as I know. I remember one guy that made several maps (like europe map) and we made them ''official'', but that was years ago and forums are dead, he isn't around anymore.
It's beyond my reasoning why you still haven't tried this era, but don't take it as offence. I'm surprised. Maybe you don't like to play against AI or for whatever reason you're waiting for the next build, that's ok. Let me just say that probably 70% of my games were against AI and they still were fun. We also had some EEaW tournaments in the past, that was also good. Again, don't take this like I'm trying to offend you, but the player base is vanishing and it will only get harder to find someone to play with. You will make maps, ok, I'm all for that, but who will play on your maps?
This is a general problem. Eras/mods/usermade content get so little attention - quality content! - that is it hardly worthwhile to do anything. If players play, creators gonna create. It's that easy. See, we've added Prussians not too long ago - we though that will be something as the players in the past were very often asking us if Prussians will be added. And what? Nothing. People like to discuss unit's names or other trivia stuff instead of sharing their experiences with our work.
I don't blame anyone. I most recently play Call of Chernobyl, Fallout 2 with Killap's RP and Economy and Combat Rebalance mod, HoMM V with 5.5 mod. Those are excellent mods with big and living communities that provide continuing feedback.
It's beyond my reasoning why you still haven't tried this era, but don't take it as offence. I'm surprised. Maybe you don't like to play against AI or for whatever reason you're waiting for the next build, that's ok. Let me just say that probably 70% of my games were against AI and they still were fun. We also had some EEaW tournaments in the past, that was also good. Again, don't take this like I'm trying to offend you, but the player base is vanishing and it will only get harder to find someone to play with. You will make maps, ok, I'm all for that, but who will play on your maps?
This is a general problem. Eras/mods/usermade content get so little attention - quality content! - that is it hardly worthwhile to do anything. If players play, creators gonna create. It's that easy. See, we've added Prussians not too long ago - we though that will be something as the players in the past were very often asking us if Prussians will be added. And what? Nothing. People like to discuss unit's names or other trivia stuff instead of sharing their experiences with our work.
I don't blame anyone. I most recently play Call of Chernobyl, Fallout 2 with Killap's RP and Economy and Combat Rebalance mod, HoMM V with 5.5 mod. Those are excellent mods with big and living communities that provide continuing feedback.
Eastern Europe at War Co-Creator viewtopic.php?f=19&t=34418
"Neptune has finally wed Venus - even Gods can't screw around forever." L-F Céline
"Neptune has finally wed Venus - even Gods can't screw around forever." L-F Céline
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
Oh! I understood that the AI was unable to comprehend the cannons and that it always rushed, making games against it too easy.
Why does Wesnoth have more mod makers than mod players? Most of the players stick with a few, familiar eras and maps; many of them play campaigns only. Why is that?
In brief summary: familiarity. Wesnoth's design favors the more dedicated and pseudo loyal players. When you think of it like that, it should be no surprise that those such players aren't always embracing and trying something wholely new.
You wish to attract a new bunch of players who want to favor EEAW over the other stuff?
Why does Wesnoth have more mod makers than mod players? Most of the players stick with a few, familiar eras and maps; many of them play campaigns only. Why is that?
discourse
You wish to attract a new bunch of players who want to favor EEAW over the other stuff?
- Make a new
[core]
. Give Wesnoth a “make-over”, with new music tracks and background scenes for the antemenu and the UI scheme. It's what we used to call, with proprietary engines, a “total conversion”. - Go multimedia. With this one era I am helping to develop — well, let's say that the era creator dreams of an anime-styled serial drama featuring characters from the various factions. That's … probably not the sort of thing you want to do.
Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
So, given that this has been one of my favourite mods for quite a while I want to give you a big "thank you".
I have some gripes, of course :
cu
YPL
I have some gripes, of course :
- Having a starting position for the Prussians would be great.
- The documentation could need an update: some of the units of the Ukrainians are incorrect at least. Documenting the AMLAness of the Spearmans (are there others?) could be relevant, too.
- Some of the leaders (I remember the Tartars and Ukrainians specifically) get killed quite quickly if played by the AI. AFAICS in case of the Ukrainians this might be an effect of the position of the Keep in Kiev
- I really like your ships, and the corresponding
special effects. Having some more sea-focused scenarios might be great.
Especially if they are based on realistic geographies and/or backgrounds.
cu
YPL
- Temuchin Khan
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
This is definitely true. In fact, in my experience, whenever I play against the AI it usually comes down to a showdown between Austria and Russia.
Check out my new book!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1956715029/re ... oks&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1956715029/re ... oks&sr=1-1
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
A better default map, then? Larger, if necessary, to include all the terrain which would enable those factions stuck in the middle to better defend against attackers.
It doesn't necessarily need to be larger, though. Here's one quick fix which I am planning on using for some of my eras, as yet unpublished:
It doesn't necessarily need to be larger, though. Here's one quick fix which I am planning on using for some of my eras, as yet unpublished:
- roads, paths, and other travelways are given a new terrain type other than flat turf
- that new road terrain type requires
1
movepoint for most, if not all troops'[movetype]
; - the movepoints required for every other terrain type in each
[movetype]
are doubled and then adjusted; - the
[unit_type]movement=
for each are similarly increased — probably don't want to use an initial factor of 2x, but some formula like (movepoints)*1.5±A or something.
Tweaking the movepoints for each[unit_type]
should not be a trivial or formulaic task, but with special attention to the skill with mobility of its historical prototype.
Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
I would not subscribe to this - my experience suggests Russia/Turkey/Austria/Sweden - approxymately in this order.Temuchin Khan wrote: ↑September 14th, 2018, 6:23 pmThis is definitely true. In fact, in my experience, whenever I play against the AI it usually comes down to a showdown between Austria and Russia.
Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
Does this refer to me? If yes - The problem is not so much size, but some map details: the keep of Kiev is directly at a ford. The AI tends to leave its leader there, which makes it vulnerable to attacks by whoever is on the other side of the river. The keep of the Tartars is at the black sea, where it is vulnerable to Turkish fire-ships.Can-ned_Food wrote: ↑September 15th, 2018, 6:26 pm A better default map, then? Larger, if necessary, to include all the terrain which would enable those factions stuck in the middle to better defend against attackers.
Both cases can be handled by a human (just do not leave your leader at this position at end of turn), but the AI does not seem to be paranoid enough about its leader.
- Temuchin Khan
- Posts: 1800
- Joined: September 3rd, 2004, 6:35 pm
- Location: Player 6 on the original Agaia map
Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
Well, I usually play Austria, so that probably skews my results a little.Plentyn wrote: ↑September 15th, 2018, 7:41 pmI would not subscribe to this - my experience suggests Russia/Turkey/Austria/Sweden - approxymately in this order.Temuchin Khan wrote: ↑September 14th, 2018, 6:23 pmThis is definitely true. In fact, in my experience, whenever I play against the AI it usually comes down to a showdown between Austria and Russia.
Check out my new book!
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1956715029/re ... oks&sr=1-1
https://www.amazon.com/dp/1956715029/re ... oks&sr=1-1
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
I agree. However, if it was necessary to keep historical accuracy, then you could need to increase the size of the map to add those details — rather than simply inserting mountains or swamps where-ever you please.Plentyn wrote: ↑September 15th, 2018, 7:51 pmDoes this refer to me? If yes - The problem is not so much size, but some map details: (…)Can-ned_Food wrote: ↑September 15th, 2018, 6:26 pm A better default map, then? Larger, if necessary, to include all the terrain which would enable those factions stuck in the middle to better defend against attackers.
Increasing the size of the map would also increase the distances necessary to travel, and therefore making the vulnerable Keeps less vulnerable … however, the preferrable method to deal with that problem would be to decrease movepoints so that the map doesn't become too large to manage.
Then you have my suggestion that the movement costs for the various terrain types be doubled, allowing only roads and keeps — and deep water for seagoing vessels — to have a cost of 1.
Furthermore, fortifications should have a movement cost of 2, same as flat, open turf, so as to represent the delays due to entry and exit.
UPDATE:
I collected all the maps published in this topic together. They are available in the add–on named “Eastern Europe” on the 1-14 add–ons server. I haven't written any
[multiplayer]
data yet, but at least all the maps will be together for those who don't have them.
Last edited by Can-ned_Food on December 17th, 2018, 4:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
Well, to make myself a bit more clear: What about moving the keep in Kiev to position 32,26, and in Bakhchisaray to 39,37?Can-ned_Food wrote: ↑September 17th, 2018, 1:20 amI agree. However, if it was necessary to keep historical accuracy, then you could need to increase the size of the map to add those details — rather than simply inserting mountains or swamps where-ever you please.
Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
Expecting that era that was not desinged or at least developed with multiplayer in mind is not good.
This era currently consists mostly out of walls of text, especially Prussia which is just block of text, but every faction has some walls like that.
This is my favourite one:
Colonial Ranger
Cost: 22 HP: 45 XP: 40 MP: 6
heals +4, skirmisher, blend, ambush, nightstalk, hit and run, forcedmarch
6 × 4 melee (blade) (first strike, backstab)
9 × 3 ranged (pierce) (marksman, no counter-attack)
25 × 1 ranged (pierce) (precision, no counter-attack)
This unit is overwhelming for new players and it is not fun to play against for old players. Just because of amount of abilities it has.
When I picked this era up just to play some fun survival I decided to skip reading all of that text because i wanted to play not to learn new game mechanics.
Amount of different attacks does not help this era too, often units have 3-5 attacks and often 3 of them are of the same type just with different weapon specials and amount of strikes, so usually we have for example 2-3 ranged attacks, this just buffs unit, makes it harder to evaluate it, and players will usually use that what computer tells them to anyway so they are impactful only in specific situations (usually finishing of enemy units).
Overall this amount of special abilities makes this era hard to balance, easy to cheese, less fun and harder to learn.
PS. I'm not even talking about naval warfare.
PPS. At lest it is pleasure to look at units in this era.
This era currently consists mostly out of walls of text, especially Prussia which is just block of text, but every faction has some walls like that.
This is my favourite one:
Colonial Ranger
Cost: 22 HP: 45 XP: 40 MP: 6
heals +4, skirmisher, blend, ambush, nightstalk, hit and run, forcedmarch
6 × 4 melee (blade) (first strike, backstab)
9 × 3 ranged (pierce) (marksman, no counter-attack)
25 × 1 ranged (pierce) (precision, no counter-attack)
This unit is overwhelming for new players and it is not fun to play against for old players. Just because of amount of abilities it has.
When I picked this era up just to play some fun survival I decided to skip reading all of that text because i wanted to play not to learn new game mechanics.
Amount of different attacks does not help this era too, often units have 3-5 attacks and often 3 of them are of the same type just with different weapon specials and amount of strikes, so usually we have for example 2-3 ranged attacks, this just buffs unit, makes it harder to evaluate it, and players will usually use that what computer tells them to anyway so they are impactful only in specific situations (usually finishing of enemy units).
Overall this amount of special abilities makes this era hard to balance, easy to cheese, less fun and harder to learn.
PS. I'm not even talking about naval warfare.
PPS. At lest it is pleasure to look at units in this era.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
reply to Hejnewar
reply to Plentyn
Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
I think you missed my point by a bit. Maybe because i was logged out while sending this and i needed to write it all over again... Except that i don't know how well you know multiplayer history of this add-on. That might have some impact too.
New users yeah.
But old users...
Why is that? I could say that there were many issues with balance mostly for units with abilities. But despite them they were still playing and complaining. A that time balance was not that good, not that bad, I could say playable. But not too long after this ability called fortify was introduced. And this ability is what basically made this era fell into almost never use on server. Because camping is so good and there is no real counter to that. 60% dodge on flat 80% on villages while fortified and we still have this ability in addition we have field hospital +16 heal.
And prussia.. Let's just say that i'm not convinced by this design... (As well as by any available invisible skirmisher leader).
Ps. Games vs ai often end up as cannon spam from ai side. At least i modes that i play. So they are not fun.
New users yeah.
But old users...
I dont know if main creators of this add-on even know about this since i do not see them on server at all (and almost at 1k hours in game since 1.14 release) but this era after last tournament that was taking place somewhere in middle of 2017 actually had a small but quite stable (complex from old players that often at that time were on server). Unfortunately this group of players quite quickly decided that it's not worth their time.Sagez wrote: ↑August 18th, 2018, 6:01 pm
This is a general problem. Eras/mods/usermade content get so little attention - quality content! - that is it hardly worthwhile to do anything. If players play, creators gonna create. It's that easy. See, we've added Prussians not too long ago - we though that will be something as the players in the past were very often asking us if Prussians will be added. And what? Nothing. People like to discuss unit's names or other trivia stuff instead of sharing their experiences with our work.
Why is that? I could say that there were many issues with balance mostly for units with abilities. But despite them they were still playing and complaining. A that time balance was not that good, not that bad, I could say playable. But not too long after this ability called fortify was introduced. And this ability is what basically made this era fell into almost never use on server. Because camping is so good and there is no real counter to that. 60% dodge on flat 80% on villages while fortified and we still have this ability in addition we have field hospital +16 heal.
And prussia.. Let's just say that i'm not convinced by this design... (As well as by any available invisible skirmisher leader).
Ps. Games vs ai often end up as cannon spam from ai side. At least i modes that i play. So they are not fun.
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Re: Eastern Europe at War (EEaW) - 2.1 for 1.14!
Oh, I'm sorry! No, I don't know much about history of the add-on revisions.
I haven't played it against the computer nor another human player, so I don't know much about any unbalancing introduced with revisions.
Also … maybe my reply seems too antagonistic. I don't know if you thought so or not, but good to see that you ignored it anyway.
As for a Fortify ability … yes, the Wesnoth engine really cannot do something like that. A Civ-type game could, but not this.
Maybe these efforts would be better directed to modding FreeCiv or something.
I haven't played it against the computer nor another human player, so I don't know much about any unbalancing introduced with revisions.
Also … maybe my reply seems too antagonistic. I don't know if you thought so or not, but good to see that you ignored it anyway.
As for a Fortify ability … yes, the Wesnoth engine really cannot do something like that. A Civ-type game could, but not this.
Maybe these efforts would be better directed to modding FreeCiv or something.