The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

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The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Dalas120 »

The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Yearning for adventure, a newly-trained apprentice from the magic academy at Alduin fights alongside Wesnoth’s king during a major war against the orcs of the north. Play a pivotal role during this time of turmoil, as despite a string of battlefield victories Wesnoth seems to be slipping inexorably into chaos...

Replaces and rectons Delfador’s Memoirs, as part of Yumi’s in-progress “Terror of Asheviere” story arc. Plot approved for mainline.
- obliterate your foes with 23 learnable magic spells.
- manage multiple recall lists across 13 scenarios.
- Deoran appears in this campaign. He’s a retcon, not a continuity error; TSG is getting moved earlier in the timeline.

Now available on the 1.18 add-on server! Post feedback here, or on the discord.
spell_selection.png
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Lord-Knightmare »

I posted the same feedback report in the Wesnoth Modders Guild Discord but posting the same thing here to show that the forum post is getting attention at least.
feedback report

Code: Select all

# The Deceiver's Gambit
# (The Delfador's Memoirs Rework)

## Feedback
## BY: TJK/Lord-Knightmare

### Scenario 0: Graduation

- Really nice introuction to the campaign where you can actually see a mage trial.
- Gives us an overview of what kind of character Delfador is.
- Also, a good introduction to the spellcasting system.

### Scenario 1: Stirrings of War

- I like the way that spells can be configured pre-battle. Very interested in deep diving into the spellcasting system code.
- I kept the magic missile spell, but replaced leviate with Find Familiar for scouting.
- Nice mechanic where the goblins flee screaming if you off the rouser.
- Loving how the revised story is developing so far.
- No achievements yet, huh?

### Scenario 2: Fort Garard

- The story seems to have changed and made Garad very belligerent. No complaints. I am interested to see how this develops further.
- I started with taking "chill touch" and "magic missile". My goal is harvest XP for Delfador so left out utilities. I later saw that picking the shield/leviate would have benefited me a lot.
- Typo Found: "Excellent" was spelt wrong. (Spearman one-liner help text)
- Is the village at 5,24 supposed to be unreachable?
- Garard II's unit's base does not fit into the 72x72 sidebar window. I know this is a bug doofus carelessly introduced so i will let it slide this time. You might wanna resize the base image of the unit to make it fit though.

### Scenario 3: The Ambassador

- Started the scenario with Shield, Chill Touch and Fireball. I was intrigued by Polymorph and Blizzard but did not think I can utilise it very well due to the high XP cost for the Roc (most attractive choice), maybe I can if I harvest more XP.
- Ah, the Sand Scamperer unit is used here.
- Hey, hey, hey! Deoran from the TSG! WAIT A MINUTE. Does not make sense. TSG takes place in 607 YW and this campaign is supposed to take place in 470 YW (130 years before). Just how? I suggest renaming this character or you might introduce a flood of confusion. Like several feedbackers will be confused by this name so I strongly recommend changing it.
- what is up with the tutorial hints? Is this supposed to be beginner level?

### Scenario 4: The Sylvan Seer

- Okay, a puzzle scenario. Interesting. Gonna take a good amount of time on cracking the puzzle. or might skip it...dunno yet.
- So, this Deoran is actually the SAME Deoran from TSG. Hmm, Is the timeline of TSG going to change to accomodate this campaign? If not, you're looking at a gaping plot-hole/inconsistency here.
- Why is Kalenz "aged" here? He does not have the same trait in HttT. This is another plot inconsistency. Or, is HttT supposed to be updated too? I think you really should get your story details with the linked works in order before introducing this to mainline or you would be asking for a lot of trouble.
- Woah...the fight afterwards was intense. Really well executed. I got also foreknowledge on what will happen next for the HttT, Angel of Ashes and what not.

### Scenario 5: The Deceiver

- I started this off with Fireball (I might be a Natsu Dragneel fan, wont admit this though) and Mnemonic (the passive one).
- Got "ENABLE_NIGHTBLADE" macro being deprecated message in this scenario.
- The scenario was easy enough. However, I think I may have skimmed note on AMLA not being done for Delfador...What was it again?
- TBH, with the spellcasting and AMLA adjustments for Delfador, this does not seem right for a tutorial campaign. Would be better as an intermediate one.

### Scenario 6: Ring of Swords

- Ah, an ambush by the orcish tribes and saurians.
- Took Spells: Fireball, Find Familiar, and Shield.
- I reloaded...rethought my life choices...I threw away the Find Familiar and picked Leviate..oh yeah.
- Recalled some spearmen and 2x White Mages.
- Had some units stay at starting keep while others with Deoran focused on rescuing her Royal Highness.
- Delfador stole the show...as expected..

### Scenario 7: The Great River

- Ah, the infamous recall-list switch...knew this "feature" had to come up sometime...
- No Poacher or Thug? Just Thief and Footpad? Okay...but no poacher...really?
- Okay, in my version, I got Rogue Mage as recruits...hmm...cool. They have new stats...okay
- Oh a female variant of Rogue Mage..might incorporate this into my era maybe.
- Okay, so the first part of the scenario is more doable now.
- Second part is still a close-call.

### Scenario 8: Ruins of Saurgrath

- Okay, so hunting Saurian level 3 Javlineer/Flanker this time.
- The first surprise 1v3 fight did prove quite a challenge as the right selection of spells would get me through. The shield one worked like a charm here.
- The other part of the scenario was quite uneventful. No complaints. Just an observation.

### Scenario 9: Omaranth

- So, the outlaws are going to be the only playable units here? Okay.
- AH, I remember this one. Like in the classic DM one. That night in the swamp thing but more utilised concept.
- Nice.
- Hmm...So, the scenario gives a hint of a necromancer...Oh, I wonder if Iliah Malal is actually here in the reworked version..or might be the queen herself.

### Scenario 10: Clan Blackcrest

- Hmm, pretty uneventful...I suppose this was a breather scenario...giving me a lot of XP to get some levelled troops.
- I was really looking forward to try out some more of the newer spells but I feel more optimised with the current build I got running.
- The alternate advancement to the Rogue Mage seems quite cool.

### Scenario 11: The Traitor

- Woah. A sudden twist to the existing plot.
- Hey Kaylan! Yeah!
- The scenario was quite challenging sincce Spearmen made quick work of my cavalry so I had to rely on Delfador to push through and snipe out Arand.
- I wonder if it will be guilt at having murdered Arand that Delfador was motivated to raise Konrad.

### Scenario 12: Revelry, Revisited

- Ah, kind of like Pebbles in the Flood from TSG...Okay, So I tried my best and sniped out 3 enemy leaders (while sending off my best trooops away)

### Scenario 13: Long Live the Queen

- Really fantastic finish of the campaign. Wonderful.
- The Boss fight was superb too.

### Overall

- Excellent.
- Compared to the classic DM, this was way more cooler and had a deeper plot.
- Kind of surpised that Iliah Malal (and the plot element which gave Delfador his power staff: Staff of Ul-sth) had no presence in this campaign though.
Also, I am aware much of the bugs and problems I have pointed out have already been fixed. Well done on the campaign! It's amazing.
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Sire
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Sire »

Thanks for making the forum post! I tend to have text limits on ye olde Discord, and feel my walls of text are better suited for a proper message board instead of a chat platform.

* * * * * General Stuff * * * * *

Difficulty: Journyman (x2 Enemies, "Normal?")
Campaign Version: 1.01 (some bugs may have been fixed, as I saw a 1.03 version on the server while I was playing)
Save/Load: Used Frequently for favorable RNG

Overall, a fun campaign! While I personally leaned more into playing a Mage Commander (augmented traditionally Wesnoth), I definitely see the appeal and possibilities of the other playstyles. The spells are the defining feature of the campaign, and it was nice to see a variety of scenarios and objectives besides just "kill the enemy leader." The Deceiver's Gambit is definitely a campaign worth replaying!
-- One thing that did bother me was that the Familiar kept resetting (Part Two, Final Showdown) despite not dying. I was under the assumption it would always be by my side if chosen, even if other recalls were unavailable. This could have been a bug or intentional behavior, but if so it does sorta suck. I was hoping that the Familiar could grow alongside Delfador with its AMLAs...

Story-wise, I found some of the delays between text-boxes to be a bit off-putting. I know its supposed to happen for dramatic effect, but sometimes it feels like the game isn't responsive if it does nothing, even for that short time.
-- Same thing goes for the epilogue effect, clicking arrows to be greeted by no new text whatsoever. It's like flipping through a book and the next page is blank, only for the story to keep going on after the blank page has been flipped. It ruins the pacing in my opinion. // At least put some "..." in there instead of having nothing at all.

* * * * * Scenario Feedback * * * * *
Spoiler:
* * * * * Story Stuff * * * * *

Now, for some spoiler talk, there is one story aspect of the campaign that was not to my liking, and that is due to the rippling effects it has on characterization. This is more personal preference as I imagined the characters/story slightly differently, but I feel it is important enough to state it.
Spoiler:
Last edited by Sire on April 2nd, 2024, 3:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Dalas120
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Dalas120 »

Thanks for the playthrough! I really appreciate you taking the time to write up this feedback.
One thing that did bother me was that the Familiar kept resetting (Part Two, Final Showdown) despite not dying. I was under the assumption it would always be by my side if chosen, even if other recalls were unavailable. This could have been a bug or intentional behavior, but if so it does sorta suck. I was hoping that the Familiar could grow alongside Delfador with its AMLAs...
[s07] ...and I lost everything, including my leveled Familiar! The recalls I get, but the Familiar too? (I'm know of the recall list wipe/feature from the original DM, so I didn't mind too much.)
[s13] --- ....WHY IS MY FAMILIAR BACK AT LEVEL ONE. (INSERT EXPLETIVE HERE) // In hindsight, it probably wouldn't be as effective in this showdown, but still!
Ugh, this is definitely a bug. Sorry for the bad experience; will fix.
Same thing goes for the epilogue effect, clicking arrows to be greeted by no new text whatsoever. It's like flipping through a book and the next page is blank, only for the story to keep going on after the blank page has been flipped. It ruins the pacing in my opinion. // At least put some "..." in there instead of having nothing at all.
Good idea, will do.
[s07] === [BUG] While I couldn't cast spells (Shield), the abilities still changed out. I was sadly stuck as a Roc, but I gained Glamour's Leadership ability and Fireball+, while I was transformed as a Roc.
Should already be fixed on the newest version!
[s09] [BUG] I broke it. I went back to Turn 2 and it disabled the fog.
Uh oh, what exactly happened here? This isn't a bug I was aware about.
[s10] [BUG] Upon leveling up my Part 2 Familiar back to AMLA status, it gave me double the options.
Ack, will fix.
[s12] -- Also, the boats speak of praising the King. Long live the king, say the boats!
Lmao, let me fix that.
[s12x] -- Spelling Error "comsuming my home" -> "consuming my home"
Will fix!
[s13] ...and I had an awkward start as there was no music playing. Big finale scenario, no cool tunes to listen to, which is somewhat saddening. Looking at the scenario file, apparently there's supposed to be music, but nothing plays.
That's odd, let me take a look. Might have been an issue with music fading.
[epilogue] --- Ending has "Text contains invlaid Pango markup" "<i>Maybe you can finally start to heal too.<i>"
Will fix!
Story Stuff
Will pass on to Yumi; I appreciate the feedback.
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by SexyPringles »

Gameplay wise very good campaign and rework compared to the Delfador's Memoirs. I can actually use magic this time :lol: .

Plot was mostly good in my opinion but there were few things here and there that didn't sit right with me.
Spoiler:
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Dalas120 »

Much appreciated; responded on discord!
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Sire »

Dalas120 wrote: April 1st, 2024, 5:42 pm
[s09] [BUG] I broke it. I went back to Turn 2 and it disabled the fog.
Uh oh, what exactly happened here? This isn't a bug I was aware about.
I was playing the scenario normally, got into a bad situation, and used Wesnoth's standard "LOAD TURN" function to go back to the start of Turn 2.
-- When I did, the fog was disabled. The shroud still existed and the rest of the scenario seemed to play normally, but otherwise the fog was gone.
-- I don't remember if I was on Turn 2 or a turn or two ahead when I did it.
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by ZIM »

Hello, first of all I love the campaign, it's certainly more compelling than Delfador's Memoirs. My main feedback is, in lower difficulties, many times you don't really get the feeling of fighting against an overwhelming army, like in S06. I played in Journeyman difficulty, and the saurians basically just sit there, they didn't even recruit anything. Same thing with S10. They didn't really give the feeling of an army that is capable of holding their position for years. My suggestion is to increase gold and give more starting units for all sides. Also, regarding the story, it's quite solid for me, I like the characterization. But I guess this means HttT will be getting revised? Also, what's the deal with the zombie drakes in S09? Is there an explanation why in that region there are many tunnels that have many drake corpses? That's the odd thing that struck out to me.

Lastly, I want to report a bug. In the last scenario, it seems if you surround Eldred completely with Mudcrawlers/Fire Guardians, the ghosts can't heal him. The ghosts did die after a few turns, but the scenario didn't progress. I checked the scenario file, and I guess it's because you forgot to put the FIRE_EVENT=yes argument in the KILL macro for the ghosts. I managed to finish the scenario by debugging and using the throw command for check_ghost_gone event
Last edited by ZIM on April 2nd, 2024, 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Dalas120 »

ZIM wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 1:21 am My main feedback is, in lower difficulties, many times you don't really get the feeling of fighting against an overwhelming army
Ah, I appreciate you letting me know about this! I'll see what I can do to readjust the difficulty and fix this.
ZIM wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 1:21 am I guess it's because you forgot to put the FIRE_EVENT=yes argument in the KILL macro for the ghosts. I managed to finish the scenario by debugging and using the throw command for check_ghost_gone event
Will fix, thanks!
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Dalas120 »

I should ask - did you find Journeyman difficulty a reasonable challenge but weird thematically, or was it both too easy and also weird thematically?
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by ZIM »

Dalas120 wrote: April 2nd, 2024, 3:09 am I should ask - did you find Journeyman difficulty a reasonable challenge but weird thematically, or was it both too easy and also weird thematically?
I think the difficulty is quite reasonable. The only scenario that I find was too easy is the ruins of saurgrath, since the saurians didn't recruit anything. Maybe the AI have a problem with low gold?
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Lexa04 »

Hi, I've completed your campaign. It was quite interesting, I liked the different spells Delfador used, and the plot is quite twisted, evil is not depicted as pure evil anymore, it has its own real reasons, I like that.The only downside is that the role of Kalenz and elfs is too reduced. I played on the easiest difficulty and it seems to me that it is too easy - the enemies recruit very few fighters, and in the Revelry, Revisited scenario they do not recruit at all, until you kill several enemy leaders. Also, in the Long Live the Queen scenario castle marks look very strange on the road, it is useful information, but just strange.
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Lexa04 »

By the way, here is my replay of the last scenario. There you can see that enemy leaders are almost inactive
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Dalas120 »

Unfortunately, so, the issue with Easy is that it needs to be EASY. A player should be able to pick up Wesnoth for the very first time and be able to complete Easy, which means I can't just turn up player gold massively since managing large armies also adds difficulty (even if the enemies are comparatively weak).

I've got a patch coming up that'll turn up both player and enemy gold on easy/normal, which should help with this a little bit, but I can still only have so many enemies on Easy.
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Re: The Deceiver's Gambit - New Mainline Candidate!

Post by Sire »

Just remembered I never added my replays for my 1.01 playthrough, so I made this post.
-- Probably outdated now, but may still be useful.
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