The South Guard (Revised)
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The South Guard (Revised)
In relation to this: viewtopic.php?t=58149, this is a draft of a revision for The South Guard to prepare for The Deceiver's Gambit being added to mainline (also still in draft stage). Looking specifically for less experienced players to test the easier difficulties and see how hard it feels.
Current status as of 1.0.3:
Current status as of 1.0.3:
Spoiler:
Last edited by nemaara on May 1st, 2024, 9:12 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: The South Guard (Revised)
Hello. Well, I've completed this campaign and here's my feedback on it. I also send my replays, which were made on Easy difficulty.
Raising the banner — The bandit starts recruiting walking corpses when he only lost one soldier. Is this by design or is it a mistake? As for Captain Mari's sprite, she looks good, but I would say that she is slightly different in style from the older sprites. 4 minutes, 56 seconds.
Westin — It is cool that dialogues have been added and you can have peaceful conversation with npcs, it shows a new player that there are other type of adventures in Wesnoth than just fighting. However, it would be better if the dialogue options that were previously selected disappeared.
Also making Sir Gerrick a random commander is also a good idea, although he has always been one. Btw, why is he the only unit in Wesnoth that uses a glaive? Is it a weapon for commanders or just cause of sprite?
The Aethenwood — has a bandit with strange behaviour. He recruit mostly level 0. 2 minutes 39 seconds.
Vale of Tears — Adding fog was a good idea. Firstly, for training, and secondly, so that you can't see what's going on next to the sage's hut. Also good job, the valley now feels captured. Elven castles destroyed and occupied, bandits have built their wooden huts next to them, nice. 4 minutes 58 seconds.
Blight — I think it's a bit weird that the bandit doesn't recruit, but I guess it's better for new players. It's good that there are now three options to choose from. Now you can easily get rid of bandits without annoying the elves, which is good. I was quite surprised to see that it was a real Mebrin, not an illusion. This was the longest scenario so far, and I think it should have been the last one in the tutorial. 14 minutes and 17 seconds.
The Long March — This scenario, as I understand it, was made to replace a similar scenario for the bandit branch. But now it makes more sense, like Ethiliel is magically moving trees or something. Wild life is good, but I'm not sure if scorpions live in the forest. The elven attacks look very strange. With the elves on our side,it's crazy. This is despite the fact that they physically have no way of knowing that Mebrin has been killed, because all the elves who saw it are with the player. 3 minutes 54 seconds.
Vengeance — should Wryn's moves be restricted when she is under player control? She cannot leave the castle. 3 minutes 41 seconds.
Now about the characters:
Captain Mari — in fact, she replaces Deoran and has most of his lines and character traits. In general, it seems as if this is no longer a story about Deoran, but about her, where Deoran just happened to be around and just exists. It would be nice to change this, for example, by allowing only him to recruit, because during the campaign I used Deoran exclusively as a scout.
Deoran — now just a background npc, he doesn't have any character development during the campaign, it doesn't feel like it.
Sir Gerrick — is an even bigger background npc.
Mebrin — I haven't noticed any changes, except that he's now a much smaller threat than before.
Magistrate Fiore — [censored].
Garard II — Also [censored].
Asheviere — I felt very sorry for her, cause her father is [censored]. But I don't see how this child can then turn into Queen we know from httt.
Conclusion:
Yes, I think this will be a good tutorial campaign for beginners, which actually teaches all the basic mechanics not in the boring way. The text is clear and so are the tips. It is especially good that they can be switched off, because a person can understand the basics in a couple of minutes, and then they are not interested in the tutorial, they need pure gameplay.
As for the time it took me to complete it, it should be multiplied by several times, because I played with 16x acceleration, and it is also clear that it will take much longer for a beginner. I personally know a person who would have taken several hours to complete it all.
Thank you for your work!
Raising the banner — The bandit starts recruiting walking corpses when he only lost one soldier. Is this by design or is it a mistake? As for Captain Mari's sprite, she looks good, but I would say that she is slightly different in style from the older sprites. 4 minutes, 56 seconds.
Westin — It is cool that dialogues have been added and you can have peaceful conversation with npcs, it shows a new player that there are other type of adventures in Wesnoth than just fighting. However, it would be better if the dialogue options that were previously selected disappeared.
Also making Sir Gerrick a random commander is also a good idea, although he has always been one. Btw, why is he the only unit in Wesnoth that uses a glaive? Is it a weapon for commanders or just cause of sprite?
The Aethenwood — has a bandit with strange behaviour. He recruit mostly level 0. 2 minutes 39 seconds.
Vale of Tears — Adding fog was a good idea. Firstly, for training, and secondly, so that you can't see what's going on next to the sage's hut. Also good job, the valley now feels captured. Elven castles destroyed and occupied, bandits have built their wooden huts next to them, nice. 4 minutes 58 seconds.
Blight — I think it's a bit weird that the bandit doesn't recruit, but I guess it's better for new players. It's good that there are now three options to choose from. Now you can easily get rid of bandits without annoying the elves, which is good. I was quite surprised to see that it was a real Mebrin, not an illusion. This was the longest scenario so far, and I think it should have been the last one in the tutorial. 14 minutes and 17 seconds.
The Long March — This scenario, as I understand it, was made to replace a similar scenario for the bandit branch. But now it makes more sense, like Ethiliel is magically moving trees or something. Wild life is good, but I'm not sure if scorpions live in the forest. The elven attacks look very strange. With the elves on our side,it's crazy. This is despite the fact that they physically have no way of knowing that Mebrin has been killed, because all the elves who saw it are with the player. 3 minutes 54 seconds.
Vengeance — should Wryn's moves be restricted when she is under player control? She cannot leave the castle. 3 minutes 41 seconds.
Now about the characters:
Captain Mari — in fact, she replaces Deoran and has most of his lines and character traits. In general, it seems as if this is no longer a story about Deoran, but about her, where Deoran just happened to be around and just exists. It would be nice to change this, for example, by allowing only him to recruit, because during the campaign I used Deoran exclusively as a scout.
Deoran — now just a background npc, he doesn't have any character development during the campaign, it doesn't feel like it.
Sir Gerrick — is an even bigger background npc.
Mebrin — I haven't noticed any changes, except that he's now a much smaller threat than before.
Magistrate Fiore — [censored].
Garard II — Also [censored].
Asheviere — I felt very sorry for her, cause her father is [censored]. But I don't see how this child can then turn into Queen we know from httt.
Conclusion:
Yes, I think this will be a good tutorial campaign for beginners, which actually teaches all the basic mechanics not in the boring way. The text is clear and so are the tips. It is especially good that they can be switched off, because a person can understand the basics in a couple of minutes, and then they are not interested in the tutorial, they need pure gameplay.
As for the time it took me to complete it, it should be multiplied by several times, because I played with 16x acceleration, and it is also clear that it will take much longer for a beginner. I personally know a person who would have taken several hours to complete it all.
Thank you for your work!
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Last edited by Lexa04 on April 30th, 2024, 7:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
The only Ukrainian translator alive and founder of Ukrainian Irdya Project
Re: The South Guard (Revised)
Hi Lexa, thank you for the feedback. I will work to address some of the items. Some like the bandit in S1 are by design to basically force the event to always trigger. Others I will continue to patch - there will be at least 1 if not more dialogue patches later on. Thank you for incorporating the playtime too, haha. I still don't know how long a beginner will take but this is at least a starting point. I wonder if I can just take your playtime and multiply by 5 just as a first guess? Let's see how long it takes others to play.
Re: The South Guard (Revised)
I wonder if I can kill the enemy leader in S1 without killing anyone else. What would happen then? I have to try it.
Yes, I think it should be multiplied by 4-5. Also if you want, I can bring in a completely newbie and make him go through this campaign
Yes, I think it should be multiplied by 4-5. Also if you want, I can bring in a completely newbie and make him go through this campaign
The only Ukrainian translator alive and founder of Ukrainian Irdya Project
Re: The South Guard (Revised)
Nevermind, it is almost impossible, except with a bunch of save-loading. Anyway, what do you think of the idea of making him start recruiting walking corpses on turn 6-8? At this point, the player will have already fought with the bandits, but hasn't managed to defeat them yet?
The only Ukrainian translator alive and founder of Ukrainian Irdya Project
Re: The South Guard (Revised)
I would appreciate this, but I would like to save that for when it is slightly more refined. So give it a few patches?
r.e. the bandit leader, that is a good solution. I will do that instead.
Re: The South Guard (Revised)
TSGR version 1.0.0 installed from the add-ons server, on Wesnoth 1.18.0+dev commit 3dec7e6c78
It opens with an exposition. Before we have any investment in the characters, world or plot, it gives a lot of world details without being clear about what is relevant to the current story. Having the king use archaic speech doesn't help, but the main problem is the lack of focus on the current story. The text also seems padded and drawn out with petty insults.
I'm reviewing how it functions as a replacement for the tutorial, so say "yes, please" to the prompt.
The movement tutorial starts, but we're in a map that's designed to be a cutscene map - one with lots of terrain types that are there to look pretty, but which normally would end without giving the player control in this room. In this one there are castles being used as decoration which looks wrong as soon as the player concentrates on it, and someone's been allowed to ride a horse over a wood-and-carpet floor, so once the cutscene is done we ought to move the player on quickly without lingering.
We are told to click on Deoran with the instruction referring to him only by name; although his name appeared in the intro conversation, it appeared once a lot of things were already said which seemed irrelevant to the current campaign. The green vs blue orbs haven't been introduced. The ellipses aren't a hint here - every team is using red ellipses, and the "can recruit" ellipse was on the king, not our protagonist; however, as the team colors and significance of ellipse colors hasn't been introduced yet, what is the scenario trying to tell the player by making every team red? The minimap just seems to be a pattern of red dots.
With Deoran selected, the movement tutorial starts, and some areas at the edge of the map are shaded. In the south, this seems to be line-of-sight, as the hexes behind the pillars are shaded. In the north it's more like a circle, but east and west there are walls nearby, along with some water where half is shaded and half isn't. The hint text talks about "flat terrain", but we're surrounded by cutscene scenery - it's not the right map to learn about movement or about Wesnoth's definition of "flat". Compare this to the existing tutorial, where a player reading the text for the first time is likely to recognise that "flat terrain" on the current map means grassland and bridges; on that map they can see that their character uses the bridges instead of moving through the river.
Talking to Mari, Deoran introduces himself formally and then jumps into colloquial speech, which doesn't seem to scan. It would be good to have a dismounted sprite and portrait for Deoran, instead of showing him on a horse in a carpeted throne room.
The "wait, you get a turn" line makes less sense that it did with the training dummy.
The journey map for the Raising The Banner scenario shows that the campaign started at Weldyn, but in doing so highlights that the map doesn't fit the journey.
The initial dialogue about being unprepared works badly here. Why haven't they brought enough troops to deal with a highwayman's ambush?
The text about recruiting puts "keep" in italics, but doesn't explain the difference between a keep and a castle hex.
The income hint only appears after capturing a village, which also means the timing isn't controlled, and the first "natural" timing to capture one by having it be the last hex a unit can move to is bad - the free spearman was closer to the keep than the leaders, so I moved him to the keep and got the hint about recruiting. I'm now in the middle of that, needing to move the spearman somewhere to free up the keep, and the text about income has triggered. At least the text at the top left remains to remind me that the current task is recruiting.
Why does "Hovering over a tile will show you the terrain type and whether or not it is a village in the terrain info box underneath the minimap." get said now? Do I have to worry about fake villages during a beginner campaign? Ah yes, there's a windmill on the map that introduces villages.
For a beginner campaign, Mari's protection skill seems too complex. It means that the player can check how much damage one of their units could take, work out that they'll survive the enemy turn too, and then invalidate that calculation by moving her.
The fort is a river with lots of ford hexes, but we haven't been introduced to terrain defense, or to mixed terrain, and distinguishing ford from river isn't the clearest thing to see at night when the combat starts.
There's a hint about thugs not having a ranged attack, but the only other units the enemy has recruited are ruffians, who also have no ranged attack.
With the first kill, we're into a discussion about necromancy. There's going to be plague active in the player's very first training scenario.
So far, there have been only two mentions of healing. One was in the long text when capturing a village, mixed in with information about income. The other was in the top-left text for turn 4; if you follow the hints for turn 3 and held the north bank, that hint is likely only shown when all your troops are at full health.
It opens with an exposition. Before we have any investment in the characters, world or plot, it gives a lot of world details without being clear about what is relevant to the current story. Having the king use archaic speech doesn't help, but the main problem is the lack of focus on the current story. The text also seems padded and drawn out with petty insults.
I'm reviewing how it functions as a replacement for the tutorial, so say "yes, please" to the prompt.
The movement tutorial starts, but we're in a map that's designed to be a cutscene map - one with lots of terrain types that are there to look pretty, but which normally would end without giving the player control in this room. In this one there are castles being used as decoration which looks wrong as soon as the player concentrates on it, and someone's been allowed to ride a horse over a wood-and-carpet floor, so once the cutscene is done we ought to move the player on quickly without lingering.
We are told to click on Deoran with the instruction referring to him only by name; although his name appeared in the intro conversation, it appeared once a lot of things were already said which seemed irrelevant to the current campaign. The green vs blue orbs haven't been introduced. The ellipses aren't a hint here - every team is using red ellipses, and the "can recruit" ellipse was on the king, not our protagonist; however, as the team colors and significance of ellipse colors hasn't been introduced yet, what is the scenario trying to tell the player by making every team red? The minimap just seems to be a pattern of red dots.
With Deoran selected, the movement tutorial starts, and some areas at the edge of the map are shaded. In the south, this seems to be line-of-sight, as the hexes behind the pillars are shaded. In the north it's more like a circle, but east and west there are walls nearby, along with some water where half is shaded and half isn't. The hint text talks about "flat terrain", but we're surrounded by cutscene scenery - it's not the right map to learn about movement or about Wesnoth's definition of "flat". Compare this to the existing tutorial, where a player reading the text for the first time is likely to recognise that "flat terrain" on the current map means grassland and bridges; on that map they can see that their character uses the bridges instead of moving through the river.
Talking to Mari, Deoran introduces himself formally and then jumps into colloquial speech, which doesn't seem to scan. It would be good to have a dismounted sprite and portrait for Deoran, instead of showing him on a horse in a carpeted throne room.
The "wait, you get a turn" line makes less sense that it did with the training dummy.
The journey map for the Raising The Banner scenario shows that the campaign started at Weldyn, but in doing so highlights that the map doesn't fit the journey.
The initial dialogue about being unprepared works badly here. Why haven't they brought enough troops to deal with a highwayman's ambush?
The text about recruiting puts "keep" in italics, but doesn't explain the difference between a keep and a castle hex.
The income hint only appears after capturing a village, which also means the timing isn't controlled, and the first "natural" timing to capture one by having it be the last hex a unit can move to is bad - the free spearman was closer to the keep than the leaders, so I moved him to the keep and got the hint about recruiting. I'm now in the middle of that, needing to move the spearman somewhere to free up the keep, and the text about income has triggered. At least the text at the top left remains to remind me that the current task is recruiting.
Why does "Hovering over a tile will show you the terrain type and whether or not it is a village in the terrain info box underneath the minimap." get said now? Do I have to worry about fake villages during a beginner campaign? Ah yes, there's a windmill on the map that introduces villages.
For a beginner campaign, Mari's protection skill seems too complex. It means that the player can check how much damage one of their units could take, work out that they'll survive the enemy turn too, and then invalidate that calculation by moving her.
The fort is a river with lots of ford hexes, but we haven't been introduced to terrain defense, or to mixed terrain, and distinguishing ford from river isn't the clearest thing to see at night when the combat starts.
There's a hint about thugs not having a ranged attack, but the only other units the enemy has recruited are ruffians, who also have no ranged attack.
With the first kill, we're into a discussion about necromancy. There's going to be plague active in the player's very first training scenario.
So far, there have been only two mentions of healing. One was in the long text when capturing a village, mixed in with information about income. The other was in the top-left text for turn 4; if you follow the hints for turn 3 and held the north bank, that hint is likely only shown when all your troops are at full health.
Re: The South Guard (Revised)
octalot, I agree with a lot of what you said, but those were also issues with the original tutorial, which I word for word copied the text over from, for example the orbs and ellipses, click on (unit name), and not explaining keep vs. castle hexes.
On things like opening with exposition, that is simply a replacement for storytext. There is only one line in Garard's opening speech that is not relevant to the campaign, so I can't agree that it is a lot. Other ones are good feedback for me to address.
On things like opening with exposition, that is simply a replacement for storytext. There is only one line in Garard's opening speech that is not relevant to the campaign, so I can't agree that it is a lot. Other ones are good feedback for me to address.
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Mechanical
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Re: The South Guard (Revised)
At the end of this campaign, what clearly looks like a 10 year old girl is forcibly married off to an adult king.
If so, that's unacceptable. I'm against pedophilia in Wesnoth.
If so, that's unacceptable. I'm against pedophilia in Wesnoth.
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ForestDragon
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Re: The South Guard (Revised)
I agree with octalot on the gameplay side of the tutorial. the tutorial also has characters saying stuff like "Ctrl + R" or "unit description" and other technical things absolutely shatters any immersion. Technical things should be restricted to narrator messages only, if units themselves so blatantly act like they know they are in a game, it becomes impossible to get immersed in the story.
However, even with the major gameplay flaws in the tutorial, the story side to me feels even worse:
As Lexa pointed out, Deoran/Gerrick got pushed out by Mari in their own story.
Garard's dialog is super archaic while Mari's is too modern so the style is super inconsistent.
It feels like almost every non-playable male character is written as an idiot or a complete scumbag, at times both (Garard and Fiore)
And to save the worst for last, Asheviere, who looks like a 10 year old CHILD (her unit type is also explicitly named "child" and her description is "A small innocent human child.") is FORCIBLY MARRIED to Garard. What the actual [censored]. Pedophilia should have no place in wesnoth, and to add such awful things to the TUTORIAL on top of that will give a very negative image of our beloved game to new players.
Overall, I feel like the proposed TSG rework is a significant downgrade over the old TSG we had.
However, even with the major gameplay flaws in the tutorial, the story side to me feels even worse:
As Lexa pointed out, Deoran/Gerrick got pushed out by Mari in their own story.
Garard's dialog is super archaic while Mari's is too modern so the style is super inconsistent.
It feels like almost every non-playable male character is written as an idiot or a complete scumbag, at times both (Garard and Fiore)
And to save the worst for last, Asheviere, who looks like a 10 year old CHILD (her unit type is also explicitly named "child" and her description is "A small innocent human child.") is FORCIBLY MARRIED to Garard. What the actual [censored]. Pedophilia should have no place in wesnoth, and to add such awful things to the TUTORIAL on top of that will give a very negative image of our beloved game to new players.
Overall, I feel like the proposed TSG rework is a significant downgrade over the old TSG we had.
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holypaladin
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Re: The South Guard (Revised)
I propose to connect the paths a bit after the "Choice in the Mist". Urza Afalas indeed undergoes a change and start support the loyalists in the fight against the bandits gaining the acceptance of some of the elves like Elthiliel (she will be murdered for this by Elthenmir who like Ithelden joins the invasion of the undead army of Mal M'Brin who begins to lead the elves, Ithelden for a long time is unaware of the great evil he unwittingly supports through Elthenmir's manipulations). The ogre has survived" many updates so I propose to leave him and add the possibility of joining (ogres are often seen in the army of Wesnoth). This campaign could be use as a broad inclusion of Dunefolk (the action takes place in the south) and increase the role of trolls (actually I would see it as an alliance of humans, dunefolk, trolls, some of the elves and former bandits against elves, bandits and undead). I strongly protest against the announced marginalization of Sir Gerrick. How do esteemed users see my propositions?
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Re: The South Guard (Revised)
You misunderstood, please go back and reread the text, she is not married at the end of the campaign. I'm still probably going to change it though, I also kinda felt the last scene was a bit much.
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SexyPringles
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Re: The South Guard (Revised)
Played through the campaign with the easiest difficulty, I'm not exactly a noob in the game so can't really give realistic view how noob friendly this campaign is. Took me like 1,5h-2h to complete the whole campaign.
First things first, a bug. I didn't get the achievement in scenario 2 even if I killed Urza Fastk. And idk am I the only one but at the start of the last scenario in the objectives reads in the notes: "Wryn can not leave the castle of Westin" so I just assumed that she handles the recruitment because she also stands at the keep. I was pretty confused when she didn't recruit anything so I just played without recruits for a while
. Didn't cross my mind to move my own unit next to Wryn until close to the end 
.
Now for the tutorial elements. I played both the campaign and the battle tutorial to compare them both. I have to say that I'm not a fan of replacing battle tutorial with this revised version of TSG or making TSG into a tutorial campaign, I've also not heard a convincing reason for removing the battle tutorial. In my opinion the battle tutorial does it's job well which is introducing the basic mechanics in the game to a complete beginner and it focuses purely on that. TSG revised is kinda weird mishmash of tutorial and plot, I would imagine that it would become hard for a noob to try keep up with the tutorial and the plot at the same time. TSG is good as a novice level campaign so transforming it to a tutorial is a choice I'm not a fan of.
Lastly the story element. Honestly speaking I do think it kinda is a downgrade compared to the original TSG. Deoran is no longer a main character or at least he doesn't feel like one, commander Mari seems to have taken that role. New character is nice and all but Minister Hylas or even Sir Gerrick could have filled the commander Mari's role. I also do dislike that the bandit route is completely removed, to me it was the more interesting choice and I did think of it as canon ending. Even TDG has Deoran performing his last stand similarly how Sir Gerrick did in the bandit route so I thought that it was a callback to that moment. Removing it also does take away the replay value.
First things first, a bug. I didn't get the achievement in scenario 2 even if I killed Urza Fastk. And idk am I the only one but at the start of the last scenario in the objectives reads in the notes: "Wryn can not leave the castle of Westin" so I just assumed that she handles the recruitment because she also stands at the keep. I was pretty confused when she didn't recruit anything so I just played without recruits for a while
. Didn't cross my mind to move my own unit next to Wryn until close to the end .Now for the tutorial elements. I played both the campaign and the battle tutorial to compare them both. I have to say that I'm not a fan of replacing battle tutorial with this revised version of TSG or making TSG into a tutorial campaign, I've also not heard a convincing reason for removing the battle tutorial. In my opinion the battle tutorial does it's job well which is introducing the basic mechanics in the game to a complete beginner and it focuses purely on that. TSG revised is kinda weird mishmash of tutorial and plot, I would imagine that it would become hard for a noob to try keep up with the tutorial and the plot at the same time. TSG is good as a novice level campaign so transforming it to a tutorial is a choice I'm not a fan of.
Lastly the story element. Honestly speaking I do think it kinda is a downgrade compared to the original TSG. Deoran is no longer a main character or at least he doesn't feel like one, commander Mari seems to have taken that role. New character is nice and all but Minister Hylas or even Sir Gerrick could have filled the commander Mari's role. I also do dislike that the bandit route is completely removed, to me it was the more interesting choice and I did think of it as canon ending. Even TDG has Deoran performing his last stand similarly how Sir Gerrick did in the bandit route so I thought that it was a callback to that moment. Removing it also does take away the replay value.
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Pentarctagon
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Re: The South Guard (Revised)
Thoughts:
I wasn't really bothered about it combining tutorial elements with an actual campaign - that's really not an unusual approach for games to take.
- Urza said "get em boys" and then didn't recruit anyone or have any already existing units on the map, which was funny but seems unintended?
- The image used when talking about ToD is very small.
- It's easy to miss the text in the upper left corner changing, though I don't have a better suggestion.
- Seems a bit weird that Ethiliel can recruit for you.
- Would be good to have a message when first encountering poison.
- Almost ran out of time trying to defeat Mebrin (turn 37/45) - the choke point, the AI being smart enough to cycle units to heal, and the lack of a good impact unit being available made it really slow going. All the forests also made it hard to move units around on land.
- No idea what Ethiliel meant to stay along the path she uses when there's no path and I'm the one moving her.
- When defending in Vengeance, there's a dialog that I should use more regular infantry, but I don't seem to have anywhere to recruit?
- The ending with Asheviere was definitely weird.
I wasn't really bothered about it combining tutorial elements with an actual campaign - that's really not an unusual approach for games to take.
99 little bugs in the code, 99 little bugs
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
take one down, patch it around
-2,147,483,648 little bugs in the code
Re: The South Guard (Revised)
Well, I saw that there were a lot of people who were very upset with the epilogue, so I read it again and have some thoughts on it.
First of all, of course, a portrait of a younger Garard II should be made, and perhaps he should be made a prince, as originally planned iirc.
Secondly, Magistrate Fiore is no doubt a [censored] for wanting to marry off such a young child. And Garard II basically says that he doesn't want this, but he does so in words that are very creepy and disturbing. Garard II may be an idiot and a bad person in general, but you don't have to stoop him that low. And in general, the dialogue doesn't seem to be a direct refusal, although it can be understood from the context.
It would be better if he said something like: "Magistrate, have you gone completely mad? Why do I need this little child?". The magistrate will try to prove something to him, but Garard will cut him off and move on to talking to Mari and Deoran. If such a conversation is to take place, it would be better than what we have now.
Third, Mari's last line is very strange,
"We'll just have to see what the future holds for her and the king...",
which suggests that she assumes that their wedding is possible. It is better to replace it with something more neutral like: "We will see what the Magistrate's rash actions will bring."
First of all, of course, a portrait of a younger Garard II should be made, and perhaps he should be made a prince, as originally planned iirc.
Secondly, Magistrate Fiore is no doubt a [censored] for wanting to marry off such a young child. And Garard II basically says that he doesn't want this, but he does so in words that are very creepy and disturbing. Garard II may be an idiot and a bad person in general, but you don't have to stoop him that low. And in general, the dialogue doesn't seem to be a direct refusal, although it can be understood from the context.
It would be better if he said something like: "Magistrate, have you gone completely mad? Why do I need this little child?". The magistrate will try to prove something to him, but Garard will cut him off and move on to talking to Mari and Deoran. If such a conversation is to take place, it would be better than what we have now.
Third, Mari's last line is very strange,
"We'll just have to see what the future holds for her and the king...",
which suggests that she assumes that their wedding is possible. It is better to replace it with something more neutral like: "We will see what the Magistrate's rash actions will bring."
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