[Complete] Wesnoth Duel Tournament
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[Complete] Wesnoth Duel Tournament
http://jove.prohosting.com/benscats/wes ... index.html
I thought I'd try and run a Wesnoth Duel Tournament. You can see my futile attemp at a website(thank you whoever made the original Wesnoth site). You should probably recognize where the majority of html came from but it is my first webpage so don't be too hard.
If anyone is interested in helping, playing or has any ideas feel free to pm me or contact me on irc(irc.freenode.net #wesnoth nick pg`) or get in touch via email pgpg7 AT yahoo.com. I am hoping to get at least 16 players. I also need suggestions for good 1v1 maps. I am going use Blitz, and my new duel map Charge! but I want more than 2. I prefer symmetrical maps as they are more fair IMO. I was also thinking of maybe using Isle of Anduin, Across the River, and Three Rivers but I am not sure how fair they are for each side. Opinions would be appreciated.
I thought I'd try and run a Wesnoth Duel Tournament. You can see my futile attemp at a website(thank you whoever made the original Wesnoth site). You should probably recognize where the majority of html came from but it is my first webpage so don't be too hard.
If anyone is interested in helping, playing or has any ideas feel free to pm me or contact me on irc(irc.freenode.net #wesnoth nick pg`) or get in touch via email pgpg7 AT yahoo.com. I am hoping to get at least 16 players. I also need suggestions for good 1v1 maps. I am going use Blitz, and my new duel map Charge! but I want more than 2. I prefer symmetrical maps as they are more fair IMO. I was also thinking of maybe using Isle of Anduin, Across the River, and Three Rivers but I am not sure how fair they are for each side. Opinions would be appreciated.
Last edited by pg on October 13th, 2004, 6:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
looks interesting.
I would join but 1) i'd get creamed and 2) i don't have time.
I would join but 1) i'd get creamed and 2) i don't have time.
For I am Turin Turambar - Master of Doom, by doom mastered. On permanent Wesbreak. Will not respond to private messages. Sorry!
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
And I hate stupid people.
The World of Orbivm
- Elvish_Pillager
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Nice website... I soon learned several reasons not to participate.
1) I would have trouble organizing matches and would never remember to be there within five minutes.
2) 2 gold per village is nearly an unreasonable setting, especially if you're going to be using the Isle of Anduin.
I would probably have found more had I looked. Also, I do not wish to be ranked. I do not think that any tournament can measure skill in this sport. (undead swarms... vs other undead swarms... not)
1) I would have trouble organizing matches and would never remember to be there within five minutes.
2) 2 gold per village is nearly an unreasonable setting, especially if you're going to be using the Isle of Anduin.
I would probably have found more had I looked. Also, I do not wish to be ranked. I do not think that any tournament can measure skill in this sport. (undead swarms... vs other undead swarms... not)
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
They will be listed on the website. Even quake players seem to have no trouble getting matches played.Elvish Pillager wrote:1) I would have trouble organizing matches and would never remember to be there within five minutes.
I said thinking about it. I asked for opinions. Thank you for yours. I am not sure Isle of Anduin is balanced regardless of gold settings per village.2) 2 gold per village is nearly an unreasonable setting, especially if you're going to be using the Isle of Anduin.
Proper maps allow other races than undead to win. If you cannot measure skill at all by a Wesnoth tournament then Wesnoth multiplayer is fundementally flawed and unworthy of being played. Even if the best player may not win certainly the better players will rise to the top. Competition is just one part of why I am running this however. I have fun playing regardless of if I win or lose.Also, I do not wish to be ranked. I do not think that any tournament can measure skill in this sport. (undead swarms... vs other undead swarms... not)
The thing is, it's a tournament like this that can really help us balance out the game.Elvish Pillager wrote:I do not wish to be ranked. I do not think that any tournament can measure skill in this sport. (undead swarms... vs other undead swarms... not)
If all the top players always use undead swarms, then we know they are unbalanced and have to fix them. But, results can often be surprising when you play with very good other players. Honestly I think it's a little arrogant of anyone to presume to predict that a certain strategy is a sure victory.
David
“At Gambling, the deadly sin is to mistake bad play for bad luck.” -- Ian Fleming
- Elvish_Pillager
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Dave wrote:The thing is, it's a tournament like this that can really help us balance out the game.
If all the top players always use undead swarms, then we know they are unbalanced and have to fix them. But, results can often be surprising when you play with very good other players. Honestly I think it's a little arrogant of anyone to presume to predict that a certain strategy is a sure victory.
David
Undead swarms aren't the only factor, I know... but there'sElvish Pillager wrote:(not)
1) Chance (You may say it balances out, but once I had an Elvish Fighter defeat 5 Spearmen, while another Elvish Fighter across the map defeated 3... Once I had 3 level 2 elves and 4 lucky Woses he surrendered)
2) Faction differences (not perfect balance)
3) Constant settings (No measure of skill on others)
4) Luck of the Draw with FoW, as current (you may just get units that beat theirs)
4b) not-luck of the Draw without FoW (First player to recruit has a disadvantage)
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
Chance isn't such a huge factor that it skews multiplayer.Elvish Pillager wrote:1) Chance (You may say it balances out, but once I had an Elvish Fighter defeat 5 Spearmen, while another Elvish Fighter across the map defeated 3... Once I had 3 level 2 elves and 4 lucky Woses he surrendered)
Which is one of the reasons to do the tournament2) Faction differences (not perfect balance)
Point there.3) Constant settings (No measure of skill on others)
You chose units well based on their faction, it's not luck, it's an educated guess. Anyway, I've never played a match where the first set of recruited units has determined the outcome.4) Luck of the Draw with FoW, as current (you may just get units that beat theirs)
I would disagree, the first player to go has an advantage because they're the first to get to any chokepoints on the map... and again: I've never played a match where the first set of recruited units has determined the outcome.4b) not-luck of the Draw without FoW (First player to recruit has a disadvantage)
-Gafgarion
"Language is the source of misunderstandings." -Antoine de Saint-ExupéryElvish Pillager wrote:Normal Trolls use clubs, not ostriches.
- Elvish_Pillager
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I gave an example of a possible situation... now imagine this:Gafgarion wrote:Chance isn't such a huge factor that it skews multiplayer.Elvish Pillager wrote:1) Chance (You may say it balances out, but once I had an Elvish Fighter defeat 5 Spearmen, while another Elvish Fighter across the map defeated 3... Once I had 3 level 2 elves and 4 lucky Woses he surrendered)
In the final match of the entire tournament, Elvish Pillager's massive Undead force, mainly Skeletons, closes in on the smaller group of (insert someone else's name here)'s Elvish Fighters. (other person) attacks first. His fighter hits 3 times, the skeleton misses 3 times. Attack again. Fighter hits 4 times, skeleton hits once. And again. Fighter hits 3 times, skeleton hits once. Soon EP's force is decimated.
Seriously, this kind of thing happens, and if it happens in a tournament....
well there's no way to prevent that.
You can never have perfect balance.Which is one of the reasons to do the tournament2) Faction differences (not perfect balance)
It's all fun and games until someone loses a lawsuit. Oh, and by the way, sending me private messages won't work. :/ If you must contact me, there's an e-mail address listed on the website in my profile.
And what's your point?Elvish Pillager wrote:I gave an example of a possible situation... now imagine this:Gafgarion wrote: Chance isn't such a huge factor that it skews multiplayer.
In the final match of the entire tournament, Elvish Pillager's massive Undead force, mainly Skeletons, closes in on the smaller group of (insert someone else's name here)'s Elvish Fighters. (other person) attacks first. His fighter hits 3 times, the skeleton misses 3 times. Attack again. Fighter hits 4 times, skeleton hits once. And again. Fighter hits 3 times, skeleton hits once. Soon EP's force is decimated.
Seriously, this kind of thing happens, and if it happens in a tournament....
well there's no way to prevent that.
The wind could massively shift in the deciding field-goal of the superbowl, losing the match for a team that wouldve otherwise won. So?
You haven't made a case against a tournament, randomness is part of Wesnoth.
Anyway if MP is so flawed that it'd be folly to have a small tournament, then it isn't good enough to devote developer resources to either... Why not just remove it?
-Gafgarion
"Language is the source of misunderstandings." -Antoine de Saint-ExupéryElvish Pillager wrote:Normal Trolls use clubs, not ostriches.
Huh? I don't understand what you're saying.Dacyn wrote:I don't see how you would be in a position to know that...Gafgarion wrote:I've never played a match where the first set of recruited units has determined the outcome.
-Gafgarion
"Language is the source of misunderstandings." -Antoine de Saint-ExupéryElvish Pillager wrote:Normal Trolls use clubs, not ostriches.
They certainly affect the game, but they don't determine the outcome of every game. If you do great recruitment your first turn and terrible recruitment from then-on-out, you probably won't win the game. All I'm saying that initial recruitment isn't as big of an advantage as EP made it seem like.Dacyn wrote:You can't really tell whether the first recruits decided the game, unless you replay the game from the beginning with recruiting different units. And I don't think you have done that for every game you have playedGafgarion wrote:Huh? I don't understand what you're saying.
-Gafgarion
"Language is the source of misunderstandings." -Antoine de Saint-ExupéryElvish Pillager wrote:Normal Trolls use clubs, not ostriches.
I don't think your other points are valid but this one maybe is. I'd really like to hear your suggested settings. I would prefer establishing some sort of standard settings because in the long run I think it's needed. All other competitive games eventually settle on settings too. If there no standard or semi-standard settings you can never balance the game for competitive play.Elvish Pillager wrote:3) Constant settings (No measure of skill on others)
I was mostly going to use my duel maps and I design them to work well for the current tournament settings. I should be able to make a few more good duel maps so there will at least be 3+ maps. If you have any ideas for maps I'd like to hear those too. I already have a new one in the works thanks to some ideas from skel.
Actually I would disagree on the above. My maps are designed so this isn't a factor. Almost everything time I play my maps players get to the chokepoints at the same time(see Blitz or Charge!) because there is a chokepoint for each player closer to their castle. It is possible to get to the farther away chokepoint first, if you buy very fast units, but that is risky because holding the chokepoint will be hard once you start to face tougher, and slower enemy units. You will also be far enough away that your slower and tougher units will likely not be able to provide reinforcements for a turn or three.Gafgarion wrote:I would disagree, the first player to go has an advantage because they're the first to get to any chokepoints on the map.
This is part of what makes multiplayer so fun. The result can be anything! Just because you are losing doesn't mean you still can't win the game with a little luck. Isn't this why so many people like football(soccer)?Elvish Pillager wrote:Seriously, this kind of thing happens, and if it happens in a tournament.... well there's no way to prevent that.
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EP is you're so illogically resolved against playing in the tournament then dont join... and for the sake of reading this forum don't talk....
im sinning but im winning at the same time/took a couple shots from a coward tryin ta take mine/back in the hood wit a chopper an a tech nine... im doin 100 on the hi way/u doin the speed limit then get the f*ck outta my way...